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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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745 for the 15th of January 2023 Richard

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Saunders coming to you from Sydney

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Australia

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oh the joys of having jet lag which

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means I wake up at ridiculous hour in

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the morning

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two o'clock three o'clock however it's

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nice and quiet and I can get a lot of

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work done so every cloud has a silver

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lining

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coming up on this week's show the sad

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news of the passing the death of Harriet

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Hall Dr Harriet Hall MD one of our

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favorite people in the skeptical Sphere

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for her Tyler's campaigning against

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medical quacks and indeed long-time

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listeners to the skeptic Zone will know

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that we on a semi-regular basis run

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promotions for Harriet Hall's online

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video series video lectures about

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quackery so to start off today's episode

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Adrian Hill you can count on Adrian will

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pay tribute to Dr Harriet Hall and this

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includes an interview I did with Harriet

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way back in 2007.

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when I first met her on the amazing

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Cruise North to Alaska with James Randy

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now listen at the end of the show I have

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more information to tell you about some

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of the things that are happening since

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Harriet died

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following that it's a report from Sydney

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Skeptics in the pub just a few nights

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ago Sydney Skeptics were back in the pub

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back in the Occidental Hotel down at

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winit which is uh more or less in the

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Heart of the City where we had an

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informal evening of spoon bending

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and chicken sandwich and a couple of

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beers and a lot of fun Tim Mendham and I

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addressed the crowd at Sydney Skeptics

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in the pub and talk about the bent spoon

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award and some other things and I hope

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this gives you a bit of the atmosphere

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the great fun we do have is Sydney

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Skeptics in the pub and well it's

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looking good in 2023 for the rest of the

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year to meet in person although we had a

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lot of very good lectures over the last

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three years online due to the pandemic

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it's nice to be back in the real Pub

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after that report aired the Australian

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Skeptics newsletter back again for 2023

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read by Adrian Hill written by Tim

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Mendham then to round off the show the

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Trove segment in a way pays tribute to

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Dr Harriet hall because we look at

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Medical quackery some of the mentions of

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Medical quackery in the uh pages of

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Australian newspapers over the decades

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now I'm also pleased to tell you that

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this episode is being made on a new

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piece of equipment after many years I

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have upgraded my iPad and I do a lot of

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the skeptic Zone work on the iPad

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and this is thanks to a very generous uh

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benefactor to the skeptic Zone You Know

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Who You Are

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thank you very much indeed and this iPad

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uses uh USBC technology so I can plug in

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a keyboard a mouse an external monitor

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uh the microphone and just about

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everything else you can imagine and this

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really does help with production so to

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my benefactor thank you very much

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well that's enough for me at the moment

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again stay tuned after the episode

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for some comments at the end of the show

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs oh yes oh yes put the bread

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in the toaster not the toast because

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it's not toast before you put it in

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and cook that bread or toast it

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a bit of butter and a bit of Vegemite

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well I do that I hope you enjoy the

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oh

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[Music]

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you can count on Adrian

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past week

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I was very sad to learn of Harriet

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Hall's death

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while I recognize that the skep dog

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wrote for many Publications I first

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became aware of her after discovering

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science-based medicine many years ago

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where Harriet quickly became one of my

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favorite skeptical writers

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her articles always made me think smile

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and even giggle her evident wit always

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came through

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the gsow or gorilla skepticism on

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Wikipedia project which I'm a part of

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frequently used her articles to edit

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Fringe Wikipedia Pages since she covered

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unusual subjects relating to Medical

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pseudoscience

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but what you may not know is that

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Richard Saunders was the very first

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person to interview Harriet for a

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podcast

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this was in 2007 for a predecessor to

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the skeptic Zone called the tank podcast

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for the interview Richard and Harriet

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were on the Amazing Adventure 2 Crews

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North to Alaska with James Randy

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here is that interview from all those

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years ago

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[Music]

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now with charades going on in the

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background It's the final day of the

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amazing Cruise The Amazing Adventure 2

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to Alaska North to Alaska with James

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Randy and I'm sitting here with a skip

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dock Harriet Hall hello Harry hello

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Ricky now you have an interesting story

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to tell about someone

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who uh has decided to contribute to the

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skeptical literature and it's even a

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surprise to you

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is that a good description uh I guess so

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I'm kind of passive skeptic for

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literally decades I've been reading the

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skeptical Empire and reading skeptical

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literature and then I became a groupie I

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started going to meetings and and

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worshiping all those people up on the

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stage but I never did anything ever

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thought I had anything to contribute and

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I went to the Skeptics toolbox Workshop

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one summer in Oregon and I met some of

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these people these high and mighty

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people from up on the stage who are done

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talking to the rest of us and they were

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human beings and they were fun and I got

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to know them and they started

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encouraging me and one thing led to

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another and like pretty soon I had

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published some articles of skeptical

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Inquirer then I went to the amazing

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meeting too and Michael Shermer spoke

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and I went up on one of the breaks and I

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I told him about a book I'd read

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recently called God code now not the

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Bible Code but another one even another

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one that almost makes the Bible Code

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sound sane I called the god code it was

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completely off the wall and I asked

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Michael if he'd read it and he said no

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but it sounded like something that would

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be good for his magazine I said well you

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know you should get somebody to write a

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book review for skeptic magazine he said

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why don't you write it yeah so now all

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of a sudden I'm not only publishing and

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a skeptic but I have my own column I'm

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my contributing editor I've got three

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so what what is your um main focus of

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interest there Health Pride I'm a

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retired family physician and I've been

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working with a quack watch uh website

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with a health fraud discussion list on

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quack watch and I've learned a

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tremendous amount from interacting with

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the people on their written some

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articles for the quack watch site and

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I'm I'm mainly uh trying to use my

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medical expertise for something useful

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I've been retired for quite a while now

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but this is a way that I can contribute

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and I have you been getting much

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correspondent much feedback

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well yes I I wrote an article for

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skeptical Enquirer called teaching pigs

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to sing about my experiences trying to

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introduce some skeptical ideas to a

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group of the general public which was

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like I say teaching things to sing only

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Glacier time and annoys the pigs yeah it

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sort of was the story of that but I got

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a lot of feedback and my favorite one

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was an email that started out

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dear Harriet will you marry me he went

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on to say he was actually already

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happily married but we could move to

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Utah all right let's see so you have at

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least it lets you know that people are

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out there and they're reading your

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articles yes it's been very gratifying

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I've had requests to use my articles for

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college courses on critical thinking and

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wow a request to post it on websites and

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to reprint it it's been that is

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gratifying very gratifying and I noticed

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in the the issue of the skeptic we have

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an article in the issue of the

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Spider-Man on the cover no that's that's

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a skeptical Inquirer the skeptic has

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Dawkins on the cover I get them all

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confused picture of Richard Dawkins were

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your article it's a very interesting uh

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line drawing of you or was that a

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photograph turned into a library I sent

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a photograph to Pat Lindsay the art lady

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at skeptic at her request um she did the

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pencil sketch she had not met me yeah

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yeah my daughter says it makes me look

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mean but oh

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who incidentally is on the cruise with

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us your daughter my daughter is yes I

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had dinner with her the other night she

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seemed quite challenging thank you so

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thank you very much for chatting to me

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enjoy the rest of the cruise I think

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there are some whales to be spotted this

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[Music]

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of course Harriet also appeared on the

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skeptic Zone over the years and there

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will be a link to all those interviews

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in this week's show notes in one episode

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I was surprised to hear that Harriet

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worked for Oprah Winfrey's old magazine

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but not surprised to hear that it didn't

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last

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do check them out and as you may have

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heard advertised on this podcast before

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Harriet created a wonderful free 10-part

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lecture series about quote so-called

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complementary and alternative medicine

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end quote this is available at

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tinyurl.com forward slash skep doc

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series

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while I never had the pleasure of

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meeting her I did reach out to her

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occasionally with a question or once a

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notification that her website was down

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and she always replied

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as some listeners will know I get

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migraines I have for a long time

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belonged to a Facebook group of people

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dealing with migraines and cluster

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headaches one of the things I have

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appreciated about this group is the

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focus on science-based treatment

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discussions but as it grew from under a

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hundred to several thousand more

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questionable products began to turn up

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in the discussions though they were

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usually dismissed gracefully by the

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moderators

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one product however seemed to be gaining

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momentum it was Jovi stick on patches

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and this is not to be confused with the

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real migraine treatment called agavi a

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preventative treatment of regular

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injections

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the Facebook group was excitedly sharing

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a coupon and exclaiming that they

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couldn't wait to get theirs my skeptical

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senses started tingling remembering the

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goop so-called NASA stickers that were

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supposed to promote healing

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00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:44,700
I tried to find information about this

278
00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:46,740
specific product that I could use to

279
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:49,140
calm the excitement but couldn't find

280
00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:52,079
anything so I contacted Harriet sharing

281
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:54,420
the details of this so-called migraine

282
00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:55,260
cure

283
00:11:59,569 --> 00:11:57,720
she pointed me to her article that I had

284
00:12:02,930 --> 00:11:59,579
missed the previous month about several

285
00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:02,940
other brands of magic patches that had a

286
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:05,160
wide variety of claims but seemed to

287
00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:07,980
work the same way as the Jovi patch I

288
00:12:11,329 --> 00:12:09,660
thanked her and immediately shared

289
00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:11,339
Harriet's article with my Facebook group

290
00:12:16,009 --> 00:12:13,800
the discussion immediately started to

291
00:12:18,110 --> 00:12:16,019
change its tone the coupon frenzy

292
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:18,120
stopped and the discussion turned to

293
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:21,060
quote would acephaly also fall under the

294
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,000
quackery category end quote

295
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:26,160
for your information acephaly is another

296
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:27,959
device often used by people with

297
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:30,660
migraine it is very much like a TENS

298
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:33,360
machine for the head and I think you can

299
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,839
guess what Harriet had to say about that

300
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:39,360
I was surprised when Harriet notified me

301
00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:41,040
that she had decided to write about the

302
00:12:45,650 --> 00:12:43,560
Jovi In addition to her previous article

303
00:12:47,569 --> 00:12:45,660
I thought I would read this article to

304
00:12:50,449 --> 00:12:47,579
you because no one can say it like

305
00:12:54,769 --> 00:12:50,459
Harriet and while I read keep in mind

306
00:13:03,769 --> 00:12:54,779
that the Jovi costs 149 US dollars for

307
00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:06,350
so the article is titled update on

308
00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:09,540
Energy Medicine pain patches Jovi and

309
00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:12,420
its targeted marketing strategy

310
00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:14,820
and it was written by Harriet on April

311
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:18,360
20th 2021. and it starts by saying for

312
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:20,760
many women cramps are a regular feature

313
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:23,279
of their menstrual periods Jovi is being

314
00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:26,160
marketed as a cure it isn't it's just

315
00:13:32,329 --> 00:13:30,060
more Energy Medicine pain patch nonsense

316
00:13:34,610 --> 00:13:32,339
last month I wrote about Energy Medicine

317
00:13:38,090 --> 00:13:34,620
pain patches calling them laughable

318
00:13:39,769 --> 00:13:38,100
quackery now there's another one Jovi it

319
00:13:41,569 --> 00:13:39,779
was brought to my attention by a

320
00:13:44,810 --> 00:13:41,579
correspondent Who belongs to a Facebook

321
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:44,820
group for chronic migraine sufferers

322
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:46,440
she reports that members of the group

323
00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:48,660
are all excited about a new product that

324
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:50,100
they hope will put an end to their

325
00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:53,220
migraines and menstrual cramps Jovi a

326
00:13:58,069 --> 00:13:55,980
reusable patch when I tried to look at

327
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:58,079
Jovi's website I got a warning that it

328
00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:00,360
might be impersonating jovi.com to steal

329
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,180
my personal or financial information it

330
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,040
said I should close the page so I did

331
00:14:10,430 --> 00:14:07,680
but it wasn't hard to piece the story

332
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:10,440
together from Facebook and other sources

333
00:14:15,410 --> 00:14:12,779
Jovi makes the same pseudoscientific

334
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,420
claims as other patches it allegedly

335
00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:18,000
uses technology developed to enhance

336
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,000
reception in Communications devices used

337
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:24,300
by the U.S Navy Seals it talks of Nano

338
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:27,180
capacitors and neuro-capacitive coupling

339
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,959
it is non-invasive it allegedly acts as

340
00:14:35,569 --> 00:14:33,360
a bio antenna that picks up and enhances

341
00:14:37,850 --> 00:14:35,579
the body's electrical fields to somehow

342
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:37,860
prevent pain signals from reaching the

343
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:38,760
brain

344
00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:41,519
essentially the same incoherent nonsense

345
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:45,300
as signal relief and kylo patches their

346
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,339
new marketing strategy specifically

347
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:49,440
targets menstrual cramps and migraine

348
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:51,779
pain there are testimonials Galore on

349
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,240
social media it is specifically designed

350
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:57,180
to appeal to women even stressing that

351
00:15:01,370 --> 00:14:58,860
women were involved in the product's

352
00:15:04,189 --> 00:15:01,380
development there are no controlled

353
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:04,199
studies in a courtroom the testimonials

354
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:06,240
would not be acceptable as evidence they

355
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:09,180
would be dismissed as hearsay does Jovi

356
00:15:16,250 --> 00:15:10,079
work

357
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:16,260
placebo-controlled clinical studies a

358
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:17,880
third of subjects reported that the

359
00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:21,420
placebo is effective but it is unethical

360
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:24,420
to promote placebos by falsely claiming

361
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:26,940
that they are not placebos

362
00:15:33,530 --> 00:15:30,720
conclusion just more of the same old

363
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:33,540
nonsense as Christopher Hitchens says

364
00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:36,240
quote that which can be asserted without

365
00:15:42,769 --> 00:15:38,940
evidence can be dismissed without

366
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:42,779
evidence end quote I have no hesitation

367
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:44,930
in dismissing Jovi

368
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,100
[Music]

369
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,500
period for inspiring me to be a

370
00:15:56,509 --> 00:15:54,959
skeptical activist and for being so

371
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:56,519
approachable

372
00:16:02,990 --> 00:15:59,279
until next time this is Adrian Hill

373
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,760
foreign

374
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:16,390
[Music]

375
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:24,720
Hall MD known to thousands as the skep

376
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,600
doc a retired family physician and

377
00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:30,240
former Air Force flight surgeon she

378
00:16:34,090 --> 00:16:32,279
writes about medicine so-called

379
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:34,100
complementary and Alternative Medicine

380
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:38,160
Science quackery and critical thinking

381
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,920
Harriet now has a free course a series

382
00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:43,620
of 10 video lectures on science-based

383
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,199
medicine and alternative medicine

384
00:16:50,449 --> 00:16:48,240
the videos and an accompanying course

385
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:50,459
guide can be found by following the link

386
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:51,620
at

387
00:16:55,150 --> 00:16:53,940
skipdoc.info or by visiting

388
00:16:56,889 --> 00:16:55,160
[Music]

389
00:17:01,790 --> 00:16:56,899
web.randy.org

390
00:17:04,329 --> 00:17:01,800
educational Dash modules dot HTML

391
00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:04,339
topics covered in the series are

392
00:17:09,309 --> 00:17:06,140
science-based medicine versus

393
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:09,319
evidence-based medicine what is Cam

394
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:12,799
Chiropractic acupuncture Homeopathy

395
00:17:18,010 --> 00:17:15,720
naturopathy and herbal medicine Energy

396
00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:18,020
Medicine miscellaneous Alternatives

397
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:21,540
pitfalls in research and science-based

398
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,780
Medicine in the media and politics

399
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:27,360
Harriet covers each Topic in a matter of

400
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:29,880
fact no-nonsense way that sure to

401
00:17:53,710 --> 00:17:34,490
educate and entertain skep doc dot info

402
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:53,720
[Music]

403
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,980
well I'm pleased to say we're back here

404
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,840
at Sydney Skeptics in the pub and my

405
00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:59,520
goodness me it's Stephen pavaro who I

406
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:01,020
interviewed only a couple of weeks ago

407
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,820
on the show hello Steve hi Richard good

408
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:04,799
to be back here face to face with fellow

409
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:07,080
Skeptics yeah it is I mean there's a

410
00:18:11,150 --> 00:18:08,640
nice little turn up so far this is the

411
00:18:12,669 --> 00:18:11,160
first one of the year and it's um it's

412
00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:12,679
very informal there's no guest speaker

413
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:15,660
and we're only here to have a beer have

414
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:18,360
some chips and just talk about skeptical

415
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,220
things and maybe bend a few spoons but

416
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,840
it's good to see you here and it's

417
00:18:24,529 --> 00:18:23,280
finally great to meet you face to face

418
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:24,539
because we've messaged for the last

419
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:26,760
couple of years and um I I wanted to

420
00:18:30,049 --> 00:18:28,679
really really catch up with you um you

421
00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:30,059
know a skeptic on as you said you know

422
00:18:33,710 --> 00:18:32,100
like at the last sort of moments you um

423
00:18:35,810 --> 00:18:33,720
had to stay in Sydney for obvious

424
00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:35,820
reasons so but I'm glad to see you here

425
00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:37,799
today I'm glad to see you guys here

426
00:18:43,070 --> 00:18:40,200
today so um yeah yes I would have been

427
00:18:46,490 --> 00:18:43,080
there apart from uh covid-19 had other

428
00:18:48,409 --> 00:18:46,500
ideas for my week or my two weeks during

429
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:48,419
the convention the worst possible timing

430
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:50,100
yes

431
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:52,020
um but um that's the beauty of at least

432
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,640
we live we live in this day and age

433
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,919
where things can be streamed online you

434
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:57,600
were able to still watch my talk and

435
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:01,200
yeah I did talks so that's good and so I

436
00:19:04,430 --> 00:19:02,940
mean like even five or ten years ago

437
00:19:06,350 --> 00:19:04,440
that wasn't really that much possible

438
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:06,360
and now it is you know so that's the

439
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:08,340
positive side of living in this in this

440
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,900
day and age you know especially with

441
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:11,760
this pandemic you know to still have

442
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:13,919
access to information you know real

443
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:16,080
information to counteract

444
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,520
this information and misinformation

445
00:19:20,990 --> 00:19:19,679
that's a positive thing and that's you

446
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:21,000
know I think that's a good thing that's

447
00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:22,320
a very good thing that's very good good

448
00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:25,559
to see you here I can see sitting over

449
00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:28,440
there looking after his bottle of beers

450
00:19:38,049 --> 00:19:30,660
Tim Mendham so I'm going to walk over to

451
00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:40,909
no no it's not I'm gonna go away hello

452
00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:43,500
Tim hello Richard hello it's good to see

453
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,580
you again I haven't seen you for a while

454
00:19:47,289 --> 00:19:46,320
it's great to see you too Richard thank

455
00:19:49,789 --> 00:19:47,299
you too

456
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,799
we're here we're back in the pub this is

457
00:19:52,669 --> 00:19:51,360
quite something but we're working at the

458
00:19:53,370 --> 00:19:52,679
end of last year but you weren't here I

459
00:19:57,890 --> 00:19:53,380
don't think

460
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,450
I'm really now stuck in on a regular

461
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:01,620
basis back at the lovely Occidental

462
00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:04,500
Hotel it's nice to be back and it's all

463
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:06,360
done up they've actually reached the

464
00:20:12,110 --> 00:20:09,480
whole thing I trust you have been uh in

465
00:20:15,529 --> 00:20:12,120
my absence and over the past few months

466
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:15,539
I trust you have been Gathering up a a

467
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:18,120
wealth of book of Tim

468
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:21,120
oh I have been yes yes absolutely yes

469
00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:22,860
funny you should say that actually funny

470
00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:25,140
I have been collecting like crazy

471
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:26,700
actually so

472
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:27,360
um

473
00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:30,179
and I'll go home and assess it straight

474
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:31,460
away

475
00:20:36,529 --> 00:20:34,320
it's a warning yeah it's a warning okay

476
00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:36,539
thank you Richard for warning yes no

477
00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:38,940
it's very apt actually so I will um get

478
00:20:45,770 --> 00:20:42,600
back as soon as possible with books of

479
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:45,780
Tim's books of Tim yes yeah as long as

480
00:20:58,370 --> 00:20:54,310
ladies and gentlemen

481
00:21:00,409 --> 00:20:58,380
speaking into a microphone but you can't

482
00:21:02,770 --> 00:21:00,419
hear me through the speakers but this is

483
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:02,780
for another reason welcome to the first

484
00:21:09,130 --> 00:21:06,720
hello down the back welcome to the first

485
00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:09,140
Skeptics in the pub for 2023.

486
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:12,799
[Applause]

487
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:15,000
wonderful to see you all here of course

488
00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:16,559
it's been a bit hit and miss over the

489
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,289
I should have waited

490
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,679
this is ladies and gentlemen this is our

491
00:21:30,110 --> 00:21:27,840
editor Tim men and he's going

492
00:21:31,180 --> 00:21:30,120
Tim mend them everybody thank you very

493
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:31,190
much

494
00:21:35,390 --> 00:21:33,780
[Applause]

495
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:35,400
I'm gonna look ridiculous with two

496
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:38,820
microphones but that's nothing new

497
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,220
uh welcome to Skeptics in the pub for

498
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:43,919
2023. it's wonderful to be back uh here

499
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:48,240
in the pub because for oh almost 20

500
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:49,980
years we've been having Skeptics in the

501
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:52,559
pub in Sydney and every month we bring

502
00:21:56,029 --> 00:21:54,600
you a very interesting speaker they

503
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:56,039
normally stand here I'm not an

504
00:22:01,610 --> 00:21:57,480
interesting speaker this month but

505
00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:01,620
anyway get off thank you Jim uh we we

506
00:22:06,289 --> 00:22:03,780
have scientists we have Skeptics we have

507
00:22:09,169 --> 00:22:06,299
Educators we have all manner of people

508
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,179
from Dick Smith to Dr Carl kozlinski to

509
00:22:13,630 --> 00:22:10,799
visiting scientists from all around the

510
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:13,640
world so please keep in touch on Meetup

511
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:16,020
and it's the first Thursday of every

512
00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:17,460
month we hope to bring you a very

513
00:22:23,149 --> 00:22:20,940
interesting year of special guests over

514
00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:23,159
there near Tim Mendham you'll see a

515
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:24,900
table full of

516
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:26,940
the skeptic magazine please help

517
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,000
yourself please help yourself there are

518
00:22:34,130 --> 00:22:31,679
some back issues there you can have for

519
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:34,140
free and if you don't subscribe to the

520
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:35,940
magazine I would encourage you to do so

521
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:38,100
we have various committee members from

522
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:39,299
the Australian Skeptics and you're

523
00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:41,940
welcome to chat with them uh blowing his

524
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,620
nose over there it's Ian Bryce hello Ian

525
00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:48,000
hey

526
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:50,700
Ian is our challenge coordinator when

527
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:53,520
people come to us with a claim they can

528
00:22:58,490 --> 00:22:56,340
oh I don't know Ben spoons or Divine

529
00:23:02,450 --> 00:22:58,500
water or do something like that Ian is

530
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:02,460
the man who puts together the test the

531
00:23:10,029 --> 00:23:05,600
challenge and if successful the person

532
00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:10,039
will receive a hundred thousand dollars

533
00:23:15,169 --> 00:23:13,620
I'll see you later Ian I've got I got a

534
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,179
few spoons

535
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:17,700
spoon betting doesn't count damn it all

536
00:23:23,289 --> 00:23:20,100
right we have our secretary Lara Benham

537
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:25,730
and our president is with us tonight

538
00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:27,720
Jessica singer all the way over there in

539
00:23:36,110 --> 00:23:33,230
so tonight really is

540
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,120
to really oh I'm louder really informal

541
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:38,159
chat to everybody I'll be coming around

542
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:40,380
later on to bend some spoons which is a

543
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:41,700
lot of fun we've been doing this for

544
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:45,360
many many years always get to

545
00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:47,580
anybody new yeah anybody here for the

546
00:23:50,990 --> 00:23:48,600
first time

547
00:23:54,049 --> 00:23:51,000
wow that's a that's welcome very much

548
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,059
indeed yes great to see you uh as I said

549
00:23:59,870 --> 00:23:56,400
before this is probably the most

550
00:24:01,310 --> 00:23:59,880
informal uh night of the the whole year

551
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,320
for Skeptics in the pub but every

552
00:24:04,669 --> 00:24:02,880
Skeptics of the pub is reasonably

553
00:24:06,890 --> 00:24:04,679
informal it's it's just drinking eating

554
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:06,900
and having a lot of fun and a lot of uh

555
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:09,720
chat do you want to say anything Tim no

556
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:10,640
good

557
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:14,000
well that makes a change once again

558
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,140
once again ladies and Gentlemen please

559
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,480
come up to the uh the table there and

560
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:20,400
help yourself to a back issue of the

561
00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:22,620
skeptic magazine talk to Tim he'll

562
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:24,780
convince you to to subscribe to the

563
00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:27,240
magazine later this year

564
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:29,940
uh we don't know the date just yet our

565
00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:31,919
annual convention will be in Melbourne

566
00:24:36,529 --> 00:24:34,200
this year

567
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:36,539
one Melbourne fan in the audience that's

568
00:24:39,409 --> 00:24:37,440
good

569
00:24:42,590 --> 00:24:39,419
actually I will pass the microphone over

570
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,600
you to you Tim can you just remind our

571
00:24:48,049 --> 00:24:44,640
uh audience here tonight about the

572
00:24:51,170 --> 00:24:48,059
winner of the bent spoon please ladies

573
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:51,180
and gentlemen Tim Mendham

574
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:53,100
[Applause]

575
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:54,960
every year since the Skeptics have

576
00:24:59,230 --> 00:24:56,580
started almost every year we've issued

577
00:25:01,610 --> 00:24:59,240
the Ben spoon award to the most uh

578
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,620
Preposterous piece of paranormal piffle

579
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:03,360
of the year

580
00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:05,700
Ann has had to say without messing up a

581
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,840
microphone

582
00:25:10,850 --> 00:25:09,120
um and uh it could be anybody you know

583
00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:10,860
making a politician we had a politician

584
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:13,980
a couple years ago TV station individual

585
00:25:19,130 --> 00:25:17,400
people Pete Evans Etc

586
00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:19,140
um Pete Evans is the only person who's

587
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:20,460
won it twice

588
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:22,260
so he's very noted but he thought when

589
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:23,820
he first got it that he was a bent spoon

590
00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:29,269
speak a chef

591
00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:30,840
second time he wasn't so sure but he

592
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:32,580
probably had all by then anyway

593
00:25:36,649 --> 00:25:34,740
uh but this year what we do is we sort

594
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,659
of put up open nominations anyone can

595
00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:38,880
nominate and pretty soon on the website

596
00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:40,740
there'll be a page where you can submit

597
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:43,080
your nomination of someone who deserves

598
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,340
their order has to be someone within

599
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:46,080
Australia and it has to be for something

600
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:47,760
they've done since the last convention

601
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:51,120
which was in start of December right so

602
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:54,840
for the year most of the Year 2023 but

603
00:25:58,250 --> 00:25:56,580
what we can do Tim and I think

604
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:58,260
somebody's going to do this is nominate

605
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:01,919
SBS television because on Christmas

606
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:04,260
night or just before Christmas they ran

607
00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:07,260
a special about Yuri yella after all

608
00:26:12,610 --> 00:26:09,000
these years it's all about the year

609
00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:12,620
together Museum actually and um

610
00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:16,200
Yuri Gila has set up a museum in Israel

611
00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:18,900
and there was a TV program a documentary

612
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:21,240
about it that was shown on SBS it was

613
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:24,000
extremely Pro illegal which is not

614
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:25,440
surprising because it was produced by

615
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:28,200
Yuri Hiller but it talked about all the

616
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:29,580
different things that he believes then

617
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:31,500
and he's collected over the years and

618
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:34,020
he's a bit of a a bow bird of collecting

619
00:26:39,529 --> 00:26:35,640
stuff it's all sort of weird things from

620
00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:39,539
obviously posters of David Bowie to a

621
00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:42,900
Death Masks of chopa to all sorts of

622
00:26:46,669 --> 00:26:44,580
weird and wonderful different things but

623
00:26:48,769 --> 00:26:46,679
he believes in energies he's just he

624
00:26:51,010 --> 00:26:48,779
throws in a lot of buzzwords that are

625
00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:51,020
used all the time by new age people Etc

626
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:53,220
totally meaningless just throw them

627
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,080
around if you want to have a really

628
00:26:59,690 --> 00:26:57,360
upsetting is it an hour and a half I

629
00:27:01,549 --> 00:26:59,700
think it is I watch the whole thing have

630
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,559
a look at it on SBS on it's being

631
00:27:05,870 --> 00:27:04,320
streamed for a while anyway if you

632
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:05,880
really have nothing better to do which

633
00:27:08,870 --> 00:27:07,260
you probably do

634
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:08,880
um anyway I'll be having a little review

635
00:27:12,110 --> 00:27:10,260
of that in the next issue of the

636
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,120
magazine which subscribers will be able

637
00:27:16,970 --> 00:27:15,120
to read but hint right okay back to the

638
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:16,980
Ben Spooner would know so therefore SBS

639
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:19,679
will will be I think a definite nominee

640
00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:23,279
to the 2023 Ben spoon award woman who

641
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:24,980
was a doctor

642
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,400
she's actually a doctorate right named

643
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:31,440
Maria Carmela Powell

644
00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:34,320
who in Queensland was a very

645
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:36,299
entrepreneurial person and was selling

646
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,320
uh covert vaccine exemption forms she

647
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,520
sold

648
00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:43,919
1200 of them to people

649
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:46,020
at about 100 bucks each

650
00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:48,179
and it made the noise go off like that

651
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:50,220
actually every time that you saw one

652
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:53,159
so she made 120 000 out of selling these

653
00:27:56,570 --> 00:27:54,779
useless forms

654
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:56,580
um she did convince people that she was

655
00:28:01,250 --> 00:27:59,760
a doctor because she has a doctorate

656
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,260
and people thought that meant a medical

657
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,320
doctor so the police got it they charged

658
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:06,240
her her lawyer said she might have been

659
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:07,860
confused about what sort of doctor she

660
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,470
she wondered about the level of phds

661
00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:14,520
issued in the country

662
00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:16,980
um but anyway but uh so she was charged

663
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:18,900
and it was naturally you think of the

664
00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:20,460
the full force of the law would be

665
00:28:23,810 --> 00:28:21,659
against her she could have been fined

666
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:23,820
sixty thousand dollars sent to jail for

667
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:26,340
three years but no she was fine twenty

668
00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:28,260
five thousand dollars I think it was and

669
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:31,320
no no uh conviction recorded

670
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:32,640
so we're not going to show what happened

671
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:35,340
to the rest of the 120 000 she got

672
00:28:38,990 --> 00:28:36,480
right

673
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,000
I don't know but I mean uh so our

674
00:28:44,269 --> 00:28:41,580
justice system is great for the law but

675
00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:44,279
not great for justice half the time so

676
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,980
she was the winner of the uh Ben spoon

677
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:49,440
award for 2022. it was announced it's

678
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:50,880
always announced that the demo for the

679
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:51,740
convention

680
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:56,640
and we've got a rousing uh chorus of

681
00:29:03,409 --> 00:29:02,210
she was the winner past ones you can

682
00:29:06,169 --> 00:29:03,419
have a look at all the previous winners

683
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:06,179
on the website which is skeptics.com go

684
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:07,679
through the about and you'll find the

685
00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:09,000
Ben spoon award you'll find all the

686
00:29:12,409 --> 00:29:10,020
winners

687
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,419
um Craig Kelly's wanted Pete Evans the

688
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,880
ABC's one that will be nominated if they

689
00:29:18,289 --> 00:29:16,320
wanted three times have been dominated a

690
00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:18,299
lot of times actually so they're fertile

691
00:29:23,630 --> 00:29:20,580
grounds SBS similarly

692
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:23,640
the Mike willisey the late Mike Willis

693
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:24,960
he was the only person who's won the big

694
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:28,320
spoon and a positive journalism award if

695
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:29,520
he's the only one to get both sides of

696
00:29:33,409 --> 00:29:31,740
the coin this is history of Australia we

697
00:29:35,090 --> 00:29:33,419
had psychic dentist

698
00:29:36,529 --> 00:29:35,100
who had came and this was at the early

699
00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:36,539
days where we did have overseas people

700
00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:40,020
but he was brought to Australia by the

701
00:29:47,389 --> 00:29:42,840
what's that Scottish group they're sort

702
00:29:51,889 --> 00:29:49,850
finned horn I think it was a fender horn

703
00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:51,899
group in Australia brought out a psychic

704
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:54,179
dentist who could fix your fillings and

705
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:56,340
teeth with psychic powers and then of

706
00:29:59,690 --> 00:29:57,779
course he went back to America where he

707
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,700
came from and that's when people found

708
00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:01,200
out that they weren't actually fixed

709
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:03,720
surprise surprise but I mean so we've

710
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,640
had a range of people out there who have

711
00:30:09,649 --> 00:30:07,440
won all from different fields it's it's

712
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:09,659
a it's a fun thing to do we had it we

713
00:30:14,269 --> 00:30:12,080
get about 10 or 12 nominations per year

714
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:14,279
so that's a fun thing to look at but

715
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:16,740
feel free to make a nomination feel free

716
00:30:20,269 --> 00:30:18,600
to have a look keep your eyes peeled for

717
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:20,279
something really worthy of something

718
00:30:25,210 --> 00:30:21,840
that's really Preposterous and pittle

719
00:30:27,649 --> 00:30:25,220
and uh we'll have a Ben spoon for 2023

720
00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:27,659
SBS is off to a good start

721
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:29,640
thank you very much Tim Mendham

722
00:30:36,649 --> 00:30:34,730
so just to round off many of the things

723
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:36,659
Tim was talking about if you go to

724
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:40,380
skeptics.com dot a uh you can look them

725
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:42,600
up on our web page there's a search box

726
00:30:47,330 --> 00:30:44,880
all the back issues of the skeptic bar

727
00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:47,340
the last year so going back over 40

728
00:30:52,610 --> 00:30:50,220
years are free you can go to the website

729
00:30:54,350 --> 00:30:52,620
and download them and search them it's a

730
00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:54,360
wonderful resource but for the rest of

731
00:30:58,610 --> 00:30:56,460
the evening please hit the bar order

732
00:31:00,289 --> 00:30:58,620
your dinner get some more drinks in and

733
00:31:02,570 --> 00:31:00,299
as I say I'll be around later on to

734
00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:02,580
maybe bend a spoon or two but for now

735
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,720
thank you very much

736
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:05,760
[Music]

737
00:31:34,029 --> 00:31:07,810
foreign

738
00:31:39,049 --> 00:31:36,850
yes we investigate from science

739
00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:39,059
spirituality and claims of the

740
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:41,100
Paranormal you took the words right out

741
00:31:45,169 --> 00:31:43,380
of my mouth Yes this whole podcast it

742
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:45,179
sounds like it's been a real challenge

743
00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:47,100
for you lately actually it's a lot of

744
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:49,860
fun yes exactly because it's so fun I

745
00:31:54,649 --> 00:31:51,679
don't know how you do this will be 75

746
00:31:57,409 --> 00:31:54,659
okay that seems fair oh no Ross and

747
00:32:00,260 --> 00:31:57,419
Carrie at maximumfund.com.org you knew

748
00:32:16,930 --> 00:32:00,270
it was a DOT org I have a gift foreign

749
00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:16,940
[Music]

750
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,980
hello everyone this is Adrian Hill from

751
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:22,080
Canada here to read the highlights from

752
00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:24,120
the first Australian Skeptics newsletter

753
00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:27,860
of 2023. this is newsletter number

754
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:30,419
164. you can subscribe to this

755
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,100
newsletter and get it delivered to your

756
00:32:37,070 --> 00:32:34,320
inbox every other week complete with

757
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:37,080
links to all the stories just visit

758
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:44,990
but now let's see what Tim Mendham has

759
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:47,100
for us this week

760
00:32:52,130 --> 00:32:49,919
hi all says Tim we're back for a new

761
00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:52,140
year of the weird the wonderful the

762
00:32:57,169 --> 00:32:55,080
strange and the stimulating

763
00:33:01,610 --> 00:32:57,179
following is a selection of some of the

764
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:01,620
most important or weird wonderful Etc

765
00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:04,500
items from the last few weeks but

766
00:33:08,930 --> 00:33:06,419
because it has been close to a month

767
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,940
since the last newsletter there has been

768
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:11,039
a lot of strange and stimulating stuff

769
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,860
happening so you might like to visit our

770
00:33:19,009 --> 00:33:16,080
Facebook page to catch up on even more

771
00:33:21,409 --> 00:33:19,019
than we have here in the meantime we

772
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:21,419
hope 2023 will be a good year for you

773
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:22,559
and yours

774
00:33:29,570 --> 00:33:24,960
read on Tim

775
00:33:34,810 --> 00:33:32,450
calls to stop U.S anti-vaxxer from

776
00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:34,820
entering Australia

777
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:37,140
campaigners including a number of

778
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:39,000
notable Skeptics are calling on

779
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:41,700
immigration Minister Andrew Giles to

780
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,179
deny a visa to influential anti-vaccine

781
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:48,000
activists and covid-19 misinformation

782
00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:51,840
spreader Peter McCullough the us-based

783
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,960
former cardiologist who last year was

784
00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:56,640
stripped of his medical qualifications

785
00:34:01,730 --> 00:33:59,460
for spreading covid misinformation is

786
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,740
set to tour Australia next month along

787
00:34:06,529 --> 00:34:03,600
with United Australia party National

788
00:34:09,050 --> 00:34:06,539
director Craig Kelly and Senator Ralph

789
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,060
Babette as part of speaking events

790
00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:11,280
organized by Clive Palmer's political

791
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:11,750
party

792
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:20,149
Professor Sue's Tick-Tock psychic over

793
00:34:22,450 --> 00:34:21,280
murder claims

794
00:34:25,369 --> 00:34:22,460
[Music]

795
00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:25,379
Rebecca Scofield a University of Idaho

796
00:34:30,169 --> 00:34:27,720
Professor was fingered for the murder of

797
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:30,179
four University students by the inner

798
00:34:36,589 --> 00:34:33,899
Spirit of a Tarot reader Schofield is

799
00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:36,599
now suing the reader Ashley Guillard who

800
00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:39,720
told her 100 000 Tick-Tock followers

801
00:34:45,530 --> 00:34:42,300
baseless claims that Schofield was

802
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:45,540
involved Scofield says she had never met

803
00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:47,159
the four victims and was out of town

804
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,139
when the attack took place

805
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,599
a 28 year old graduate student at a

806
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,460
neighboring University who had no

807
00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:54,960
apparent connection to any of the

808
00:35:00,530 --> 00:34:57,540
victims has now been arrested however

809
00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:00,540
Guillard is compounding her Claim by

810
00:35:08,329 --> 00:35:02,820
insisting the professor ordered the

811
00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:12,290
anti-vaxxers hop on the athlete Trail

812
00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:14,700
when U.S NFL player Demar Hamlin

813
00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:17,160
collapsed mid-game following an apparent

814
00:35:20,270 --> 00:35:18,200
heart attack

815
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,280
anti-vaxxers quickly claimed his

816
00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:22,320
condition was a reaction to covid

817
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,320
vaccination without even knowing if he'd

818
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:27,480
been vaccinated and ignoring the fact

819
00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:29,400
that heart attacks are the most common

820
00:35:36,109 --> 00:35:32,040
reason for an on-field collapses of

821
00:35:38,590 --> 00:35:36,119
athletes Fox News Tucker Carlson joined

822
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:38,600
the conspiracists no surprise there

823
00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:42,180
[Music]

824
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:46,700
moon landing deniers pick on Artemis

825
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:48,960
conspiracists think the Artemis project

826
00:35:53,930 --> 00:35:51,119
is part of the same hoax that fake the

827
00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:53,940
original moon landings the various

828
00:35:57,950 --> 00:35:55,859
arguments put forward against both the

829
00:36:00,160 --> 00:35:57,960
Apollo and the Artemis projects are

830
00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:00,170
discussed and debunked

831
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:03,960
[Music]

832
00:36:07,609 --> 00:36:06,300
of the skeptic magazine is out with

833
00:36:10,010 --> 00:36:07,619
great articles on medical

834
00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:10,020
misunderstandings the great conspiracy

835
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,020
theory Theory big waves exorcism case

836
00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,359
studies and the continuing Hall of Shame

837
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:17,880
of spurious claims and dubious responses

838
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,820
if you haven't subscribed yet now is the

839
00:36:25,069 --> 00:36:22,160
time to do so

840
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:25,079
you can sign up for a hard copy or

841
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:27,300
digital Edition or both since the

842
00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:29,280
digital is offered free to those who

843
00:36:33,290 --> 00:36:31,140
take up the hard copy version

844
00:36:35,569 --> 00:36:33,300
contact the editor if you're not sure of

845
00:36:37,790 --> 00:36:35,579
your existing subscription needs

846
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:37,800
renewing

847
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:41,640
Russia claims psychic attacks

848
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,640
the federal guard service or fso an

849
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:47,040
elite Russian intelligence service has

850
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:49,200
reportedly authored a secret memo

851
00:36:53,569 --> 00:36:51,420
detailing special measures to be adopted

852
00:36:56,329 --> 00:36:53,579
to protect Putin and other leaders

853
00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:56,339
during war time and they actually use

854
00:37:01,310 --> 00:36:58,200
the word War

855
00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:01,320
the memo claims that quote the enemy end

856
00:37:07,390 --> 00:37:04,380
quote I.E Ukraine in the west is

857
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:07,400
mobilizing quote religious

858
00:37:14,030 --> 00:37:10,400
pseudo-religious organizations end quote

859
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:14,040
and quote individuals possessing psychic

860
00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:15,839
abilities end quote

861
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,839
the memo also alleges that Ukrainian and

862
00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:20,880
Western intelligence services are in

863
00:37:27,290 --> 00:37:24,900
possession of mysterious PSI generators

864
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:27,300
machines that are capable of generating

865
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:29,460
psychic waves to brainwash and control

866
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:30,780
enemies

867
00:37:36,829 --> 00:37:33,960
the deputy director of The fso General

868
00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:36,839
Alexander kamov is named as the person

869
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:39,540
in charge of protecting Putin and his

870
00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:43,380
colleagues against these psycho weapons

871
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:45,839
according to the publication in Exile

872
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,380
Insider komov is known for employing

873
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:51,599
Russian psychics and astrologers to

874
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:54,000
counter-attacks he believes come from

875
00:37:57,950 --> 00:37:56,820
their Western counterparts oh my

876
00:38:00,829 --> 00:37:57,960
it

877
00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,839
animal psychics

878
00:38:05,390 --> 00:38:03,000
to conclude our look at psychic animals

879
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:05,400
picking winners at the 2022 World Cup

880
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,400
here is Nicholas the dolphin who picked

881
00:38:13,370 --> 00:38:10,800
the winner of the final and he got it

882
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:13,380
wrong the moral of the story don't put

883
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:15,180
your money on psychics of whatever

884
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:16,640
species

885
00:38:20,450 --> 00:38:18,050
good advice

886
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:20,460
[Music]

887
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:23,880
billiest story of the week

888
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,119
a psychic sees the soul of a friend's

889
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,520
dead hamster

890
00:38:34,010 --> 00:38:32,160
Helen Elwood has said the death of her

891
00:38:37,069 --> 00:38:34,020
friend's hamster and her witnessing It

892
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:37,079
soul rising from its body has led to her

893
00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:39,960
hearing messages from other dead animals

894
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,680
seriously

895
00:38:48,650 --> 00:38:45,359
[Music]

896
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:48,660
well that's all for now and before I

897
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,579
leave I would like to thank a very

898
00:38:54,530 --> 00:38:52,740
talented Richard for sending me not one

899
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:54,540
replacement pair of origami earrings

900
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:57,599
that my dog chewed up and swallowed but

901
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:00,240
three pairs the intricacy and beauty of

902
00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:03,060
these earrings is amazing he also sent a

903
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:07,560
note to my dog quote dear dog woof woof

904
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:13,200
woof woof woof woof signed poof end

905
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:15,660
quote and I'm guessing the translation

906
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:18,720
would be quote dear dog what were you

907
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:22,560
thinking food no signed Richard end

908
00:39:26,850 --> 00:39:23,520
quote

909
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:26,860
and until next time this is Adrian Hill

910
00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:42,410
I'm Mick West in my podcast Tales From

911
00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:43,740
The Rabbit Hole I have extended

912
00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:45,060
conversations with people who've been

913
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,460
involved in conspiracy culture I do this

914
00:39:50,270 --> 00:39:48,960
for a couple of reasons firstly because

915
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:50,280
it's really interesting these people

916
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,960
have great stories about how they fell

917
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:53,760
down the conspiracy theory Rabbit Hole

918
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,500
what they did down there and what it was

919
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:57,359
that helped them out sometimes I also

920
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:58,440
talk to people who investigate

921
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:59,760
conspiracy theories and they have

922
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,320
equally fascinating stories from the

923
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:03,359
other side secondly I want to understand

924
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:04,980
how best to prevent the spread of

925
00:40:08,510 --> 00:40:06,780
conspiracy theorism misinformation which

926
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:08,520
is an increasing problem in a time when

927
00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:10,980
alternative media is exploding the best

928
00:40:14,750 --> 00:40:12,660
way to do this is to communicate

929
00:40:16,609 --> 00:40:14,760
effectively with the people involved and

930
00:40:19,730 --> 00:40:16,619
the best way to do that is with a nice

931
00:40:24,170 --> 00:40:19,740
long chat check it out Tales From The

932
00:40:24,180 --> 00:40:27,640
foreign

933
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:36,620
[Music]

934
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:44,339
once again to dive back into those pages

935
00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:47,119
at Trove at

936
00:40:50,569 --> 00:40:49,020
trove.nla.gov.eu the online resource

937
00:40:54,109 --> 00:40:50,579
from the Australian government and the

938
00:40:57,230 --> 00:40:54,119
National Library of Australia and this

939
00:41:01,329 --> 00:40:57,240
week I thought I would look up Medical

940
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:01,339
quackery in honor of Dr Harriet Hall

941
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,900
now you can imagine if you type in a

942
00:41:08,329 --> 00:41:05,520
term like a medical quackery into

943
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:08,339
newspaper archives there are many

944
00:41:13,609 --> 00:41:11,280
returns so at random more

945
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:13,619
is crawling through the years let's pick

946
00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:23,329
and our first entry comes from a

947
00:41:30,410 --> 00:41:27,020
magazine a newspaper called Truth which

948
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:30,420
to my knowledge has been more than one

949
00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:33,420
newspaper or magazine called Truth this

950
00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:36,480
one happened to be published in 1953 and

951
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:40,500
this Edition was on the 26th of April

952
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:43,560
a quack is still active

953
00:41:49,550 --> 00:41:46,260
Haddon Bobs up again with his phony

954
00:41:52,130 --> 00:41:49,560
cures master of mumbo jumbo and medical

955
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,140
quackery Fred Haddon of Castle Ray

956
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:54,240
Street who continues to flee sufferers

957
00:41:59,089 --> 00:41:57,300
with his phony cures bobbed up again

958
00:42:01,609 --> 00:41:59,099
this week at the Assembly Hall to

959
00:42:04,849 --> 00:42:01,619
announce his new method of treating all

960
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:04,859
ailments and especially arthritis

961
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:07,680
truth as frequently exposed this

962
00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:10,200
charlatan who has no medical degrees or

963
00:42:15,710 --> 00:42:12,900
diplomas but who practices an idiotic

964
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:15,720
treatment called electric psychosomatic

965
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:18,720
therapy by means of which he has

966
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:21,780
pretended to cure cancer diabetes

967
00:42:28,990 --> 00:42:25,920
chronic arthritis and War Neurosis an

968
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:29,000
audience of about 150 many of them

969
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:31,760
arthritic sufferers heard this

970
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:34,920
self-proclaimed cure of the incurable

971
00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:37,920
Trot out a fantastic claim that he could

972
00:42:44,109 --> 00:42:40,260
diagnose human ailments from colored

973
00:42:48,349 --> 00:42:44,119
photographs of the eye

974
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:48,359
really I wonder if this is iridology

975
00:42:54,290 --> 00:42:51,839
seeing is believing quote this high

976
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,300
priest of quagary a German doctor

977
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:56,160
discovered the method more than 50 years

978
00:43:02,089 --> 00:42:59,640
ago he said he nursed an owl with a

979
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,099
broken leg the doctor studied the owl's

980
00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:04,920
eyes and saw the fracture in its eyes

981
00:43:10,730 --> 00:43:08,040
and its leg healed so did the mark in

982
00:43:13,069 --> 00:43:10,740
the eye later he found that whatever a

983
00:43:17,150 --> 00:43:13,079
human was suffering from was reflected

984
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:17,160
in his eyes aha wow

985
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:22,079
an early reference to iridology

986
00:43:26,750 --> 00:43:25,260
that's fascinating from what was that

987
00:43:29,630 --> 00:43:26,760
year again

988
00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:29,640
that year was just go back to the the

989
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:31,740
top of the page

990
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:35,220
that year was 1953.

991
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,859
that's interesting iridology in

992
00:43:44,329 --> 00:43:40,800
Australia dates back at least that far

993
00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:44,339
but I shall read on Modest hadn't and

994
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:45,960
modestly claimed to have taken over the

995
00:43:51,530 --> 00:43:48,680
doctor's idea and showed his audience

996
00:43:55,010 --> 00:43:51,540
the first public pictures of the human

997
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:55,020
eye delineated in color ascribing to

998
00:43:59,870 --> 00:43:57,180
each a physical or mental ailment which

999
00:44:02,210 --> 00:43:59,880
he alone could see

1000
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,220
admission to haddon's lecture was free

1001
00:44:08,690 --> 00:44:04,800
but at the end of his talk question time

1002
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:08,700
was interrupted for a collection to

1003
00:44:13,970 --> 00:44:10,740
defray the expense of hiring the hall

1004
00:44:16,370 --> 00:44:13,980
hadn't showed what he called horror

1005
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:16,380
slides depicting current methods of

1006
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:19,140
treatment for arthritis but truth still

1007
00:44:24,050 --> 00:44:20,880
believes that the real horror of the

1008
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,060
situation is that legal loopholes leave

1009
00:44:28,130 --> 00:44:26,400
such quacks such as hadn't free to

1010
00:44:31,250 --> 00:44:28,140
commercialize the gullible of

1011
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:31,260
unfortunate sufferers who eagerly grasp

1012
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:34,319
any form of charlton-ism to gain relief

1013
00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:36,599
and

1014
00:44:43,069 --> 00:44:39,480
that was again from 1953

1015
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,079
the truth newspaper and that's a little

1016
00:44:47,390 --> 00:44:45,359
gem that's worth keeping aside that one

1017
00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:47,400
I'm going to put that in the archives of

1018
00:44:50,569 --> 00:44:49,020
iridology

1019
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:50,579
fascinating

1020
00:44:56,690 --> 00:44:52,980
and of course just quickly iridology is

1021
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:56,700
the uh false erroneous

1022
00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:00,720
um wrong look up your thesaurus modality

1023
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:04,440
or belief that the iris of the eye where

1024
00:45:10,970 --> 00:45:07,800
else would an iris be reflects states in

1025
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:10,980
the body and this was a subject covered

1026
00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:13,920
in a lecture by Harriet Hall and this

1027
00:45:18,589 --> 00:45:16,500
was referred to earlier in the show one

1028
00:45:20,690 --> 00:45:18,599
of her video lectures where she talks

1029
00:45:22,490 --> 00:45:20,700
about homologous in other words parts of

1030
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,500
the body that are supposed to represent

1031
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:24,720
other parts of the body like acupuncture

1032
00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:27,720
points on the ear or reflexology points

1033
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:31,500
on the foot in the words of some TV show

1034
00:45:36,829 --> 00:45:34,560
I once saw outdated claptrap

1035
00:45:39,470 --> 00:45:36,839
now let's turn to the pages of the age

1036
00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:39,480
newspaper from Melbourne Victoria on the

1037
00:45:46,849 --> 00:45:42,780
3rd of November 1954.

1038
00:45:50,210 --> 00:45:46,859
state will put ban on charlatans

1039
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,220
medical quacks are to be banned from

1040
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:52,560
operating in Victoria the minister for

1041
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:54,960
Health Mr Barry said yesterday that

1042
00:45:58,970 --> 00:45:57,060
cabinet had approved a bill which he

1043
00:46:02,030 --> 00:45:58,980
hoped would be submitted to Parliament

1044
00:46:04,250 --> 00:46:02,040
before recess the bill he said would be

1045
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:04,260
in keeping with the labor party's last

1046
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,380
annual conference decision that quacks

1047
00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:09,839
charlatans and humbugs should suffer

1048
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:11,960
heavy penalties for practicing medicine

1049
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:15,240
penalties are likely to include a 50

1050
00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:19,020
pound fine for a first offense and for a

1051
00:46:25,849 --> 00:46:21,540
second offense a fine of between 50

1052
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,859
pounds and 250 pounds or up to two years

1053
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,319
imprisonment the bill will set out

1054
00:46:34,490 --> 00:46:31,680
diseases complaints and sicknesses that

1055
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:34,500
unregistered practitioners will not be

1056
00:46:38,990 --> 00:46:37,440
permitted to treat and of course ever

1057
00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:39,000
since and I do know of some situations

1058
00:46:44,030 --> 00:46:40,859
especially here in my state of New South

1059
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:44,040
Wales where the government has continued

1060
00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:48,720
to try to put the mockers on quacks with

1061
00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:52,140
mixed success they keep bobbing back up

1062
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:54,300
I'm looking at you mind body wallet

1063
00:46:57,950 --> 00:46:55,380
Festival

1064
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:57,960
however in The Argus also from Melbourne

1065
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,440
Victoria on the 10th of August 1954 we

1066
00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:04,560
have this story a promise fulfilled

1067
00:47:12,290 --> 00:47:09,540
Barry anti-quack Bill to stop all fakers

1068
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:12,300
a bill to Outlaw medical quacks in

1069
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,760
Victoria will be presented when State

1070
00:47:19,550 --> 00:47:16,800
Parliament meets next month State

1071
00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:19,560
cabinet last night approved a bill which

1072
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:22,500
will be introduced by Mr Barry Health

1073
00:47:28,130 --> 00:47:25,980
Minister Mr Barry said I promised some

1074
00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:28,140
time ago to protect people from being

1075
00:47:32,990 --> 00:47:30,780
fleeced by quacks taking their money for

1076
00:47:36,349 --> 00:47:33,000
fake cures This Promise is now being

1077
00:47:38,809 --> 00:47:36,359
fulfilled heavy fine the bill is

1078
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:38,819
expected to follow the lines of the

1079
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,000
cancer quacks Bill brought down during

1080
00:47:46,910 --> 00:47:44,400
the country party's government term of

1081
00:47:48,130 --> 00:47:46,920
office and incidentally the country

1082
00:47:55,309 --> 00:47:48,140
party

1083
00:47:56,750 --> 00:47:55,319
or less dedicated to the rural areas of

1084
00:47:58,130 --> 00:47:56,760
Australia it's now called the National

1085
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:58,140
Party

1086
00:48:03,170 --> 00:48:00,599
this bill made it an offense for any

1087
00:48:06,349 --> 00:48:03,180
unregistered medical practitioner to ask

1088
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:06,359
for or receive reward for advice or

1089
00:48:12,650 --> 00:48:09,119
treatment for any condition which is

1090
00:48:15,230 --> 00:48:12,660
cancer or alleged to be cancer

1091
00:48:17,390 --> 00:48:15,240
offenders are liable to a fine of up to

1092
00:48:20,690 --> 00:48:17,400
50 pounds for a first offense and a fine

1093
00:48:22,490 --> 00:48:20,700
of between 50 and 250 pounds or two

1094
00:48:24,490 --> 00:48:22,500
years imprisonment for a second or

1095
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,500
subsequent offense

1096
00:48:28,730 --> 00:48:26,880
unqualified persons are permitted to

1097
00:48:30,650 --> 00:48:28,740
give treatment if this is expressly

1098
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:30,660
authorized by a registered medical

1099
00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:33,599
practitioner the anti-quack bill will

1100
00:48:38,930 --> 00:48:36,359
detail illnesses which unregistered

1101
00:48:40,609 --> 00:48:38,940
practitioners will not be allowed to

1102
00:48:43,010 --> 00:48:40,619
treat

1103
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:43,020
and I wonder if that bill still exists

1104
00:48:48,829 --> 00:48:46,680
in one form or another

1105
00:48:53,210 --> 00:48:48,839
and finally we'll Leap Forward a decade

1106
00:48:55,450 --> 00:48:53,220
to the 1960s on the 31st of August 1964

1107
00:48:58,550 --> 00:48:55,460
as written in the Canberra times

1108
00:49:02,150 --> 00:48:58,560
education need to stop Quacks

1109
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,160
Sydney Sunday only a thorough education

1110
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:03,839
will protect the public from medical

1111
00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:06,060
quacks and charlatans according to an

1112
00:49:11,450 --> 00:49:07,800
article in this week's medical journal

1113
00:49:14,930 --> 00:49:11,460
of Australia the article comments on the

1114
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:14,940
current rash in America of bizarre cures

1115
00:49:19,970 --> 00:49:17,220
for cancer and other diseases it has

1116
00:49:22,010 --> 00:49:19,980
been estimated that there are over 4 000

1117
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:22,020
men in the United States who claim to be

1118
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:25,520
able to cure cancer the article says

1119
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:28,500
Americans spend as much as 100 million

1120
00:49:33,230 --> 00:49:30,420
dollars yearly on unproved cancer

1121
00:49:37,309 --> 00:49:33,240
remedies which vary from pastes and

1122
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:37,319
poultices usually nitric acid or arsenic

1123
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,339
compounds to weird potions batteries

1124
00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:43,680
wires and colored lights

1125
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:47,099
some of these cures include Mechanical

1126
00:49:53,390 --> 00:49:50,520
Devices claimed to produce vibration in

1127
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:53,400
the body or to admit electric rays but

1128
00:49:58,130 --> 00:49:55,560
these machines are usually made from

1129
00:50:01,790 --> 00:49:58,140
batteries wires and colored light bulbs

1130
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:01,800
now I'll stop there to say I attended a

1131
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:04,319
news conference and I videoed this news

1132
00:50:07,550 --> 00:50:05,760
conference by the New South Wales

1133
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:07,560
Minister for health over 10 years ago

1134
00:50:11,809 --> 00:50:10,140
and that's on the Australian Skeptics

1135
00:50:13,210 --> 00:50:11,819
YouTube

1136
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:13,220
Channel

1137
00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:17,160
where he was talking about just such

1138
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:19,980
quack devices and wanting to ban them

1139
00:50:25,609 --> 00:50:22,500
so wow the more things

1140
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:25,619
change the more they stayed the same it

1141
00:50:30,109 --> 00:50:27,180
is not always clear whether these

1142
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:30,119
therapists are ignorant deluded or plain

1143
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:32,700
unscrupulous but their pseudo-scientific

1144
00:50:36,589 --> 00:50:35,220
jargon sounds quite plausible to the

1145
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,599
naive public

1146
00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:39,119
dozens of such cancer remedies are being

1147
00:50:43,210 --> 00:50:41,400
proved utterly worthless every day by

1148
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:43,220
the U.S Food and Drug Administration

1149
00:50:48,109 --> 00:50:45,359
patients who seek these hetero

1150
00:50:51,530 --> 00:50:48,119
treatments are sometimes neurotic and

1151
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:51,540
fear ridden some with wrong diagnosis

1152
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:53,760
and some with Advanced incurable

1153
00:50:58,430 --> 00:50:54,960
diseases

1154
00:51:01,250 --> 00:50:58,440
the article says many of them fear

1155
00:51:03,410 --> 00:51:01,260
surgery or x-ray treatment and turn to

1156
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:03,420
the non-medical treatments thus allowing

1157
00:51:08,569 --> 00:51:06,300
the disease to advance further all such

1158
00:51:10,190 --> 00:51:08,579
methods of treatment must be evaluated

1159
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:10,200
before they are allowed in the public

1160
00:51:16,010 --> 00:51:13,680
domain the article says information on

1161
00:51:18,770 --> 00:51:16,020
cancer cures can be sought from or

1162
00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:18,780
reported to the cancer Societies or the

1163
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:21,240
Australian Medical Association usually

1164
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:23,520
the frauds can only be exposed through

1165
00:51:28,490 --> 00:51:26,400
an enlightened and educated public and

1166
00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:28,500
this education falls on the shoulders of

1167
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:32,819
the medical profession the article adds

1168
00:51:39,790 --> 00:51:35,700
and I think that's another keeper

1169
00:51:46,089 --> 00:51:43,190
it's gobsmacking I'm just amazed this

1170
00:51:49,470 --> 00:51:46,099
could have been written two weeks ago

1171
00:51:53,569 --> 00:51:49,480
it's just astonishing

1172
00:51:57,770 --> 00:51:55,490
well there you are in honor of Dr

1173
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,780
Harriet Hall a look into the Trove

1174
00:52:02,089 --> 00:51:59,940
archives from the search for quackery

1175
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:02,099
and I'm certainly glad I did that I'm

1176
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:03,720
certainly glad I did that I found some

1177
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:06,720
real gems this time around

1178
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:09,300
but you too can find some real gems

1179
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:12,240
anytime you search the archives at Trove

1180
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:13,760
at

1181
00:52:21,310 --> 00:52:16,319
trove.nla.gov.eu because you never know

1182
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:34,790
[Music]

1183
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:36,589
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1184
00:52:41,329 --> 00:52:39,119
Zone podcast now I mentioned at the top

1185
00:52:44,930 --> 00:52:41,339
of the show I would be speaking more

1186
00:52:46,809 --> 00:52:44,940
about some of the ramifications of the

1187
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:46,819
death of Harriet Hall

1188
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:50,880
and the anti-vaxx trolls wasted no time

1189
00:52:57,290 --> 00:52:54,240
in coming out of the woodwork to claim

1190
00:52:59,450 --> 00:52:57,300
that uh Dr Hall died because of the

1191
00:53:01,849 --> 00:52:59,460
vaccination in fact I got a direct

1192
00:53:03,170 --> 00:53:01,859
message to my private account

1193
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:03,180
from

1194
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:04,920
some

1195
00:53:12,770 --> 00:53:09,300
one uh who wrote To Me

1196
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:12,780
quote why don't you post honestly about

1197
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:17,520
the clot shot killing Dr Hall end quote

1198
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:20,640
clutch shot and this is basically the

1199
00:53:27,410 --> 00:53:24,240
term given by the anti-vaccination crowd

1200
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:27,420
to the vaccination of course the covert

1201
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:28,980
vaccination

1202
00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:31,440
now some weeks ago on the show I put a

1203
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:34,500
question to you I said I had just

1204
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:36,420
learned about thrips

1205
00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:38,940
thrips what are thrips

1206
00:53:43,549 --> 00:53:41,160
thrips are minute

1207
00:53:47,809 --> 00:53:43,559
mostly one millimeter or less

1208
00:53:50,049 --> 00:53:47,819
slender insects with fringed wings and

1209
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:50,059
unique asymmetrical mouth Parts

1210
00:53:55,790 --> 00:53:53,280
different thrips species feed mostly on

1211
00:53:59,870 --> 00:53:55,800
Plants by puncturing and sucking up the

1212
00:54:02,030 --> 00:53:59,880
contents although a few are predators

1213
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:02,040
no it's not all the other things I said

1214
00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:03,960
like old Australian coins or a skin

1215
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,220
condition

1216
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:07,440
trips so if you've got a case of the

1217
00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:11,280
thrips Run for the insecticide I guess

1218
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,380
now do you have problems with moths

1219
00:54:20,030 --> 00:54:16,319
where you are if so

1220
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,040
I sympathize I had moths in my cupboard

1221
00:54:26,329 --> 00:54:23,040
once eating my clothes and moths in the

1222
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,339
pantry pantry moths here in Australia I

1223
00:54:31,130 --> 00:54:29,280
had to buy little sticky traps hmm

1224
00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:31,140
but that's enough about moths coming up

1225
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:32,940
on next week's show what is coming up on

1226
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,780
next week's show the Trove segment looks

1227
00:54:42,109 --> 00:54:38,880
at creationism

1228
00:54:46,130 --> 00:54:42,119
and this is one of the areas of interest

1229
00:54:49,309 --> 00:54:46,140
for Skeptics over many years and well by

1230
00:54:52,670 --> 00:54:49,319
and large it's been consigned to the uh

1231
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:52,680
bad idea been of history in Australia

1232
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,200
I think we're doing quite well when it

1233
00:54:58,250 --> 00:54:56,880
comes to fighting creationists because

1234
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,260
you just don't hear about it much

1235
00:55:03,530 --> 00:55:00,720
anymore anyway the Trove segment will

1236
00:55:06,890 --> 00:55:03,540
look more into that next week and here's

1237
00:55:09,170 --> 00:55:06,900
a note from the pint of science people

1238
00:55:10,849 --> 00:55:09,180
the science Outreach people here in

1239
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,859
Australia calling all science

1240
00:55:15,890 --> 00:55:13,200
enthusiasts where recruiting volunteers

1241
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:15,900
nationally it's officially 2023 which

1242
00:55:20,569 --> 00:55:18,240
means it's only four months until our

1243
00:55:24,410 --> 00:55:20,579
next pint of Science Festival that will

1244
00:55:26,329 --> 00:55:24,420
be in May 22nd to the 24th of May it

1245
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,339
says we can't wait but we need your help

1246
00:55:32,510 --> 00:55:28,559
we can't organize our world-class

1247
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:32,520
Festival without our team of volunteers

1248
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:34,920
now if you're interested in volunteering

1249
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,440
for the pint of Science Program

1250
00:55:42,670 --> 00:55:39,599
I will add a link in this week's show

1251
00:55:45,530 --> 00:55:42,680
notes or just Google pint of science

1252
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:45,540
Australia a very worthwhile outreach

1253
00:55:49,130 --> 00:55:47,819
program for science here in Australia

1254
00:55:51,470 --> 00:55:49,140
and a lot of fun

1255
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:51,480
but for this week this is Richard

1256
00:55:58,670 --> 00:55:53,760
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1257
00:56:05,290 --> 00:56:00,589
you've been listening to the skeptic

1258
00:56:07,569 --> 00:56:05,300
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1259
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:07,579
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1260
00:56:14,270 --> 00:56:10,740
contacts and to access the bat catalog

1261
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:14,280
of episodes going back to 2008.

1262
00:56:19,790 --> 00:56:16,260
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1263
00:56:22,130 --> 00:56:19,800
on Twitter at skeptic Zone visit our

1264
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:22,140
Facebook page or leave a review on

1265
00:56:25,609 --> 00:56:23,460
iTunes

1266
00:56:28,849 --> 00:56:25,619
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1267
00:56:32,329 --> 00:56:28,859
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1268
00:56:34,010 --> 00:56:32,339
podcast is an independent production the

1269
00:56:36,109 --> 00:56:34,020
views and opinions expressed on the

1270
00:56:38,510 --> 00:56:36,119
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1271
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:38,520
of Australian Skeptics or any other

1272
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:40,130
skeptical organization

1273
00:56:54,589 --> 00:56:52,329
[Music]

1274
00:56:56,210 --> 00:56:54,599
hello to all those people who listen

1275
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:56,220
after the music it's time for the dice

1276
00:57:00,770 --> 00:56:58,079
game we're still at Skeptics in the pub

1277
00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,780
hello Lara hello Richard hello nice to

1278
00:57:05,569 --> 00:57:02,460
see you here yeah lovely to see you too

1279
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:05,579
and we have in front of us a a table

1280
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,980
full of keen Skeptics and a 10-sided die

1281
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:09,780
I'm going to roll this three times and

1282
00:57:14,089 --> 00:57:11,520
you at home and have everybody here at

1283
00:57:17,150 --> 00:57:14,099
the table uh use your psychic powers

1284
00:57:18,589 --> 00:57:17,160
your predictions or whatever you like to

1285
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,599
guess what number is going to come up

1286
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,640
it's going to be one two three four five

1287
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:22,559
six seven eight nine or ten Lara what do

1288
00:57:27,650 --> 00:57:25,200
you say two two John

1289
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:27,660
uh three

1290
00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:30,240
three Richard uh four

1291
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:31,859
everyone's choosing something different

1292
00:57:39,910 --> 00:57:36,000
and five five I'm gonna say six here we

1293
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:42,910
six six hello

1294
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:45,960
uh it's a six it's not rigged it's not

1295
00:57:50,890 --> 00:57:48,480
okay six is the first number everybody

1296
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:50,900
at home gets away everybody here

1297
00:58:08,329 --> 00:58:00,109
zero zero ten

1298
00:58:12,410 --> 00:58:10,910
I always do and the last roll here we go

1299
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:12,420
one more time Richard

1300
00:58:23,569 --> 00:58:16,380
seven seven five five over there one one

1301
00:58:28,930 --> 00:58:25,069
one

1302
00:58:31,490 --> 00:58:28,940
but what did I read

1303
00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:31,500
uh you won

1304
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:34,440
um